For me, Vandwelling is the bright light of Hope in a very dark world!
It got too long for one post so there will be more money saving tips in Part 3 of this series.
Live in a van and become your own landlord.
I’ve talked about this so much you probably are getting tired of it, but it just seems so obvious. I lived in a van in the city for 6 years and now I’ve lived on public land for the last 5 years. In all that time I have spent $10 on camping, and that was on Navajo Nation land and had no choice. If we assume my rent would have been $500 a month that means I have saved $66,000 dollars by living in a van. And that is a very low number, for most people it would easily be double that. But what it really gave me was the freedom to work part time at my job while I was in the city and retire early on less while living in the country. That is priceless!!!!!
Boondock!
I’ve talked to many RVers who only stay in campgrounds but would prefer to boondock. When I ask them why they don’t really have an answer. I then try to give them a quick overview of how easy it is supply your own sewer, water and electric hookups while boondocking. But many still won’t do it. For some it is the initial expense. And it is does cost some money to buy the solar panels, macerator pump and portable fresh and black water tanks. But for most of them I think it is still fear-based: fear of the unknown. One of my primary goals in this blog is to entice all of you –no matter what you live in–out onto public land by assuring you of how cheap, safe, comfortable and wonderful it is!!
Install a solar power system.
This is my first solar system. I couldn’t afford much so it is only 55 watts. It is really very simple to install–anyone can do it!
Sit and don’t drive.
For most of us gas is one of our largest expenses and this is a way to greatly reduce it. It’s almost impossible to do this in a city but it’s very easy if you are boondocking on public land. Once you choose your camp you can just sit and not drive for up to 2 weeks at a time. My friend Doug lives in a Travel Trailer. He came to camp with us 3 weeks ago and has not moved his truck since he got here. If you don’t drive, you don’t have to buy gas! If you get itchy feet and want to travel more one option is to allow yourself a certain amount of money per month for gas, and when that is spent you simply don’t drive anymore. I have a friend who budgets one and a half tanks of gas a month, and when it is gone he stops driving. Another friend only moves his camp 100 miles every two weeks and budgets another 50 miles to go into town in-between moves or to sightsee. So he only drives 300 miles a month and yet he is slowly seeing the country. In a year he will have driven 3600 miles and very intimately seen the beautiful country we live in. I think that is much better and much cheaper than planning big road trips of thousands of miles in a few weeks or months.
The key to this strategy in finding ways to entertain yourself away from civilization and learning how to carry enough supplies to last you for two weeks or longer. I will write posts on both of these topics soon.
Car Pool or use Park and Ride lots:
If you camp with friends you will all need to go into town sometimes. So instead of driving in alone, you drive in together and split the cost of gas. Or you write out a shopping list and give it to the person driving into town along with the cash to pay for it. If you are in a city ,try to plan your trips wisely and use public transportation when you can.
Buy a bike, scooter or “toad”.
My friend Brian’s Festiva (40 mpg!) under tow. it appears daunting, but it is easy to hook-up and tow. I’ve watched him hook-up numerous times and it takes less than 10 minutes. Simple! The bar is expensive but he got his cheap off Craigslist for cheap.
If you have a large enough rig I think you should consider towing an economy car (RVers refer to a towed car as a “toad”). I have several friends who live in old Class Cs and pull toads. One has a 80s Ford Festiva that gets an honest 40 mpg. The RV gets 5-10 mpg, but he drives it very little so at the end of the year his average of 7 mpg and 40 mpg is still very high.
Eat wisely.
Biscuits cooking in my solar oven. They were better tasting, cheaper and healthier than store-bought.
The key thing is to eat less prepared food which not only costs much more but is is also very bad for you. If carried to an extreme it is slowly killing you. The reason we eat so much of it is that it is so fast, easy and tastes good. But if you follow my other strategies those reasons lose their strength. Since you are bored just sitting in one place why not take this time to learn to cook those meals in such a way that they are just as good as prepared food or even better! The internet is full of lessons and recipes to teach yourself from. It’s also a way to entertain yourself. Your awake 16 hours a day and you are going to be doing something, so why not spend part of it cooking great meals! An example of what I mean is to buy a solar oven and teach yourself how to grind your own wheat and make delicious bread. You’ll save money, eat a much better tasting and healthy food, and cut one tie to the grocery store.
My friend Steve is an incredible example of this. He cooks a great meal almost every day. In fact he has gotten so good at it that he is thinking of starting a blog called the “Boondockers Gourmet.” I think it is a terrific idea and I have been strongly encouraging him to do it.
Work to supplement your income.
In my job as a campground host I had to drive to to other campgrounds. Here I am “slaving” away at my job!
Another great post bob! I really liked the electric bike idea. I was thinking about buying a 4 stroke 250 dual sport motorcycle, but an electric bike might be even better! Well, more economical. I couldn’t ride it on the freeway or anything, and that’s part of the fun of a motorcycle…
Thanks Cyrus. This is a decision I have been going back and forth on. I have had many motorcycles and my last one was a Rebel 250 and loved it! It got 70mpg and could cruise at 55-60, perfect! Then i horribly broke my arm on it! I really want to get something to get better mpg and have debated between a 50cc scooter, Honda Trail 90 or 110 or another Rebel (my legs are too short for a dual-purpose bike). I have to admit my arm has weighed heavily on my decision. Because of it safety has moved up in my priorities pushing the electric bike to the top. With a top speed of 20 mph it is much safer than anything else and I can just ride it on the shoulder not even in traffic. Bikes aren’t perfectly safe, but much safer. And charging it off solar it is free transportation, no fossil fuels at all!! Plus minimal maintenance and no recurring costs like insurance or oil changes. It wins.
Living in the city, how will you carry a motorcycle with stealth? My very good friend Terry also lives in a city, so she got a fold-up electric bike and she loves it! Seeing it was what finally made the decision for me. Since I don’t care about stealth I will get a regular mountain bike, but it seems like a fold-up electric would be perfect for you! if memory serves, her bike was made in Seattle, but I could be wrong. I’m pretty sure there is a very good brand of electric bikes made right there.
Bob
Well bob, like you I’m still wrestling with the decision. Once I start white water rafting this summer, I’ll spend some of my time in eastern Washington boondocking by the river and some of my time stealth parking in the city in western Washington. A motorcycle would make more sense on the east side of the mountains, as there are lots of places to have fun with it over there. I could throw it on a rack on the back of my van and I’d be golden. I’d just have to live with it in the city. Tacoma is pretty laid back and accepting, I’ve never been harassed for stealth parking and I don’t think a motorcycle on the back would change that. An electric bike would be better in the city, and would be optimum if I had a solar power system, but I don’t yet. But I would be very happy to have fossil fuel free, off the grid transportation. A folding bike makes a lot of sense too. I’ll have to think about it for awhile
Cyrus, Western and Eastern Washington are so opposite that it’s a tough combination to meet their needs. Big distances in the east that would be hard to cover with an eletric bike. The best range you could really hope for is 30 miles on a battery, and if you could carry a spare it goes up to 60. At 20 mph that’s 3 hours and you are working the battery hard thus reducing how long it will go. The bigger batteries are 12 ah and recharging them both will require some power. A 50cc scooter could cover it at 30 mph with no effort on your part and get 100 mpg doing it.
Heres the deal-breaker, the most advanced Lithium batteries for bikes cost $500 so a spare is an expensive proposition. I’m going with an AGM instead becuase I can buy 5 of them for the price of one lithium.
Bob
Towing anything, and racks for two-wheel vehicles, are problematic for those of us who like spending some of our time in cities. They kill the stealth factor and make it harder to find places to park. Even just an extended van could be a pain in the ass in someplace like my old parking-deficient stomping grounds of San Francisco.
Living out in the boonies can be a great way to go, but it’s not the only way. And some don’t have that option. So try not to be so single-focused when offering advice and solutions. Remember your early years when you had to live near your job.
I live in a major metropolitan area. Bike racks on the backs of vehicles are very common. You can do this if you want to do so. Find a way.
Sure, on passenger vans, but I’ve never seen one on a cargo van, and I suspect the cops haven’t, either. “Wait, something’s odd about that van. Let’s check it out.”
Sure, you could put a bicycle in a roof box (one that looked something the trades might use rather than something from Thule, Yakima or whomever) or you could carry it inside the van where even a folding bike would take up precious room.
It’a a problem and there are trade-offs. Each person needs to figure out what compromises they can make.
Al, I’m sorry to have disappointed you, I really am. Your right, it is mainly focused on boondocking but I don’t think it was single focused. There are 8 tips in the post, and only 2 of them were single purpose to boondocking. #1 be a vandweller was equally for city or country. #2 Boondock was country only #3 Solar was equally for city or country. i think solar done right doesn’t cost you any stealth at all an example is the post on installing flexible solar panels in Terrys van. #4 sit and don’t drive was only for country #5 Car pool or Park and Ride was equally city or country. BUT!!!! I gave a specific suggestion to city dwellers to plan their trips and to use public transportation. I think Park and Ride lots are a great idea for stealth vandwellers don’t you? The van stays safe all day and you save on gas. #6 bike, Scooter or toad is equal as far as I am concerned. The reason I am getting an electric bike is because my friend Terry showed me her fold-up electric bike which she rides all around Long Beach, CA where she lives fill-time. I’ll cover all that later when I get the bike, so I didn’t go over it here. But you are right, I should have pointed out that fold-up bikes make them very practical for city dwellers. That was a mistake. #7 Eat wisely was equally for city or country. Eating more vegetables, rice and beans is healthier and cheaper no matter where you live. But, you are right, much of it was specific to boondockers. #8 Work to supplement your income applies to equally to country or city. Of the 5 suggestions I gave, 2 were country only and 3 were for anybody.
I’m sorry I am being defensive. The same idea occurred to me that it was off balance so I went back and added in some city only things. It got too long so there are more to come in the next post. Some of the city only things are in it. So I am disappointed with myself that is still so far off-balance. I missed several chances to broaden it for everybody like the fold-up bike.
I’m very glad you wrote and challenged me, I need to see where I missing the mark and improve in those areas. I will never learn or improve if I don’t listen to very good constructive criticism like yours.
It will never be truly balanced, the blog reflects my life which is spent 99% in the boondocks. I don’t want it to be balanced. BUT, I want it to much more balanced than this was so I sincerely thank you for pointing that out!
Shit!! I really hate it when I am wrong!!!!
Bob
It’s your blog and you live in the country. No reason to apologize to anyone about what you write. People need to take what you offer and mold it to their needs. If they can’t do that then I can’t see them van-dwelling long. and that’s all i’m sayin about that.
Anyway … I have been looking at 50cc scooters to bring with me for trips to town so I was intrigued to hear about the electric bikes. My word, they are pricey!
Ellen, the blog will always reflect that I live in the country, and I don’t apologize for that. But that isn’t my only audience, and I must always remember that. I am very grateful for Al’s reminder!
There is a big range of prices, and some of the less expensive bikes are still very good!! I am expecting to pay about $1400 for mine, maybe less. This last RTR my friend Terry and I went to the Big Tent. The bike shop she bought her bike from in Long Beach had set up a booth and had her bike on display. They also had a bike for $800. It was an entry level bike that cost $1000 but was a floor model for $800. I almost bought it but didn’t. I’ve been kicking myself every since!!
As much as I ride on Forest Service roads, I really need a mountain bike anyway. I’m thinking about this bike made in Phoenix which would be $1400:
http://mrbelectrified.com/models-2/
Bob
You’re right, you covered some things that could apply to any situation.
I didn’t mean to come across as so critical. I just have this gut reaction, because of the restrictive culture I was raised in, to get worked up whenever something has the slightest whiff (intentional or not) of someone implying there’s only one correct way to do something, one solution, one path. Ergh!
Fortunately, I got into a career where the point was to find many different solutions and executions. I got trained to frame ideas in terms of where one was starting from and where one wanted to end up. That taught me to qualify my suggestions. “IF this is your situation, and IF this is your goal, then you MIGHT CONSIDER one of these OPTIONS. And here are the pros and cons of each.” Conversely, my father would have said something like, “This is your goal, whether you like it or not, and this is the only acceptable way to achieve it. End of discussion.”
You weren’t being like like my father. You are NOT a narrow-minded, know-it-all, authoritarian jerk. I’m just hypersensitive about some things. I’m still working on it.
After 6 years in analysis I still have those same moments. I am getting much better at keeping my mouth shut, fingers off the keys and just taking mental note of the surprising amount of personal energy behind those feelings. Life is a struggle and some of us had parents who forced upon us a template of thinking that has been a curse we didn’t know we had and therefore didn’t know how to release it. Amen.
Well said Gary!
Bob
In our own way, we are helping each other to grow! Can’t hope for more than that! The truth is that when it comes to living on the smallest possible budget, bonndocking is cheaper. So if you say to me “How can I live on the least possible amount of money”, this post is my answer. It is simply cheaper to live out here so it will dominate my answer.
But, you are totally right, I need to be more careful to include everyone. As I have said before, one time when I was living in the city i woke up to a woman in a car parked beside me and she had two kids. She had obviously slept in the car and was probably homeless. One of the primary goals of this blog is to write to her, and this was a perfect chance to do so and I failed. Too often I forget her, and I want that to stop.
If you didn’t have the courage (or anger) to write, I would merrily go on my way forgetting her, congratulating myself on what a great job I am doing (I am very egotistical!)
Al, thank you! I am in your debt (but I still hate being wrong!!).
Bob
If our paths cross, we’ll hug it out and have a couple of beers. My treat.
Al, that will be a good day (except make mine a diet Pepsi got to feed the addiction)!!
Bob
Trading stocks to earn some income is totally crazy and risky. I ‘m day trader for 15 years and I would not recommend anyone in your situation to do so. You can make a lot of money, also you lose it all.
I’ve long though the stock market is gambling, there are people who make living at cards too but I’m not one of them…
Rob it isn’t for everybody, in fact it is probably for very few. But that can be said for lots of things. I think writing books, creating blogs or websites is like that. Very few make any money at it, but a few do very well.
Actually I know several guys who make a living at gambling, but I’m not one of them either. I think that is totally different from the stock market. Historically the market always comes back: 100% of the time. That is not much of a gamble is it! As I write this it is at an all time high even after the terrible beating it has had since 2001. If you play with money you can afford to loose so you can buy and hold if you have to, if you do your research and only invest in quality companies paying dividends and with a strong track-record, the risk is low.
On the other hand, if you cut any corners and play any kind of a get-rich-quick scheme, the risk is extremely high!
Bob
i have a good friend and fellow boondocker who does just the, works the market and gets paid dividends… Now he spend allot of time researching and yes it is risky but he hedges his bet with time and experience… and makes money at it… now it is not for me, but it works for him, remember in this live there are no guarantees… i also know those that make their living building web sites, working as a hostess and some work camping… The bottom line is it works for them and is a individual decision, but it works for them… the point is there are many ways to make it, and many people doing it as they committed to it and under stand they don’t need to get rich or pay a mortgage, they just need to survive, travel, live free and hopefully put some money away… Bottom line you are out here to enjoy life, not to bank a bunch of money…
As always, very wise Steve! There is never just one way to do something, we each have to follow our own path!
Bob
Patrick, all my instincts are to agree with you 100%. But i have two vandweller/RVing friends who make a good living at it. One I have strongly encouraged to write a Kindle eBook describing his system. The key element in his system is of course lots of research, but he only buys stocks he expects to go up soon and that are paying substantial dividends. That way if he has to buy and hold, he is still earning more than he would have if it had been in the bank. It’s only gone on paper but if it is in the bank it is equally gone (until he wants to get it out, which now he can’t–but he doesn’t want to). They both play with money they can afford to loose. So as long as he can live without the money, he can wait patiently for the market to come back and be collecting the dividends all along the way. he is still better off than if the money was in the bank. If the company fails then he looses it all. But if he does his research the company suddenly failing is unlikely.
I know next to nothing about the market, but it seems reasonable to me.
Bob
Am anxiously awaiting the debut of “Boondockers Gourmet.”
Me too Linda! He has a really good balance of more traditional bachelor type meals guy make and more upscale meals. Its all easy and great. maybe this post will convince him.
Bob
Me too! I love cooking and the prospect of doing that in a Class B is daunting!
Me too!! Easy meals to fix in my Scamp would be great!! Thanks! Jan from Oregon
Jan, I’m working on him, but he keeps coming up with reasons why he can’t. We humans are such experts on finding reasons why we can’t take a chance and take a leap of faith into something new.
I often get letters from people asking for help, and I write back and make suggestions. Then they write me and tell me why that can’t work. So I make more suggestions. And they write back with more reasons why that can’t work. I’m doing that this very day!
Then I give up, they aren’t serious about making any changes in their lives. I don’t mean that negatively, change is hard and scary and just as hard for me as anyone else. I almost never do it until I am forced to. I just hope that when things get really bad they will come back to me and listen.
Bob
Ellen, you will be surprised how easy it is! Steves key is he cooks outside. you can buy these great plastic tables now that fold in half. So 5 or 6 foot table goes in half for carrying, but gives you lots of room opened. He has a 2 burner Coleman propane stove and Weber propane grill. Last Thanksgiving and Christmas we (meaning him!) put on a huge feast of turkey, mashed potatoes, yams, green beans and pumpkin pie for 13 people and it was incredible! You can do it!
How did he cook the turkey? On his portable barbecue grill! See this post:
http://cheaprvlivingblog.com/2012/10/best-darned-bbq-ever/
Bob
Between my mother teaching me the basic principles of cooking, and the Boy Scouts teaching me how to do it in the wild, I can do pretty well with just a single burner or fire. It’s just that my menu is rather limited. This old dog needs to learn some new tricks.
Al, you are fortunate to have gotten some basic skills when you were young. That is one thing that Steve would be perfect at, providing a really big variety of meals. If only…..
Bob
And me ,too! If Steve would write ANY kind of website that simply serves as a library of what he creates, it would be bookmarked like crazy. Forget the 3x a week blogging stuff, just post what he creates and personally enjoys with a pic – even as occasional guest posts here – wow. If he could find a free webhost and make a site, it’d be popular with RTR-type people and wannabe’s alike! Yum!
Van dwelling is a small scale version of ownership of your shelter. Not a house, but with no debt and low cost of ownership.
Agreed CAE. I have often said that a vandweller will always have a roof over your head and never be homeless. Seems perfect to me!
Bob
Another avenue to making extra money is Amazon’s Mechanical Turk. There you can do digital piece work like marking whether pictures have a cross walk in them. Most of the tasks are along the lines of where a human can actually do something better than a computer. You won’t get rich off of it but it can easily provide some extra money. You get paid quarterly so there is a bit of wait. I made a few dollars just fooling around with it so it is on the up and up.
Jeff
Jeff, sorry to be slow answering, all these comments can confuse me. That is a whole new idea to me. Can you send me a link to learn more about it?
Bob
Great post, as always, Bob. I love the idea of an electric bicycle!
I’m assuming that the major activity in Quartzite is a seasonal thing, basically in the winter months. Is that correct?
Naomi, yes it is just for a short period of time, from November to February at the longest. But it is often under the table so you can work lots of hours and not pay any taxes on it. It also is great for someone who has income limits because it won’t be reported. And it can go on longer with luck. I had a friend who worked for a tent vendor and they liked each other so much he followed him from Quartzsite to Yuma and then to Tuscon.
I also had a friend who came to Quartzsite in November and got a job as a waitress and just worked her fanny off (and yes, I mean that literally). I never heard details but I believe she left Quartzsite with a really big wad of cash!!! Many of the RVers who come there have a lot of disposable income and they are very social. So meeting their buddies at the restaurant daily is standard and my friend was very, very easy to fall in love with (I have!!). Si I am sure she made big, big, big tips. Another friend was a great singer and very charismatic so she went to karaoke all the time. A local guy loved her and gave her a job as the leader of his karaoke night at his bar.
There are opportunities for the bold and hard working at Quartzsite!
Bopb
Another “yes” vote for Steve’s blog. I think that is a brilliant idea. There’s a niche there.
I love this series, Bob! As you know, I don’t full-time but I am one who makes trips of thousands of miles in a couple of months. I like the idea of budgeting so much for gas, then stopping. I will get to the point sooner than later when I’ll have to do that one day.
But for now all I can say at the pump is …. “ouch!”.
Kim, I think that is what we all say at the pump. But a few aren’t as nice as you are and have a few other “choice” words as well!! One or two may even have come out of my mouth. Slowing down and smelling the roses is the best revenge. Often we enjoy the trip more, keep some hard-earned money in our pocket and the oil companies get less of it.
Bob
well Bob gave me a shout out on my cooking and I do have to admit i love to cook and finding this life style challenge i have dove into it cooking wise… I started cooking long ago when my Mom said that me, my brother , sister and dad had to cook one meal a week for the family and be judged on the meal around the table, which then turned into a competition… Since then i have gotten into all sorts of cooking, baking , and canning… Since i was diagnosed with diabetes i have striven to cook healthy which means staying as far from canned goods and the salt they contain, as the salt content in canned goods often surpasses the daily recommend requirement for salt by at least 2x…
With that i will pass on a great idea that everyone will love… stove made Bisquets, i do not know anyone who does not love bisquets… I buy the tube grands bisquets, pull out my 10″ pan and some butter/margarine… On the stove over medium heat melt the butter in the pan, have the bisquets ready to go… when the butter melts add 4 of the 8 bisquets to the pan and cover with a paper plate and let brown… it will take about 5mins a side but keep an on them so as not to burn, then turn and finish the batch… The butter seasons them and they turn out great if you are paying attention… this is very simple easy and very impressive for your guests… They will keep for 24 hours but are best eaten right away… now the sky is the limit for there us from breakfast to dinner… have fun and good eats… this was stolen from my eclectic friend Lisa…
BTW with good healthy cooking i have beaten diabetes and lost 100 pounds… all the while boon-docking…
Steve, this sounds yummy! Congratulations on beating diabetes and losing 100 lbs!
Steve, you are so right, I should have mentioned that in the post. I’ve know Steve for almost two years and he is literally Half the man today he was when I fist met him. And he isn’t alone, I know numerous people who have lost lots of weight while boondocking and I know one other person who completely overcame his diabetes. It is a special advantage of boondocking that out here you are a long way from fast food and junk. All you have to do is shop carefully while you are in town and you will loose weight and be healthier. The opposite was true for me when I was a city dweller. All the fast food was constantly calling me. Every morning I stopped at a convenicne store to wash up and buy a paper and the donuts all knew my name and called to me! I am a weak, weak man!
Bob
hey bob,when you get your electric bike,do a post with lots of pixs.gary
You bet, Gary!! That is one of the main reasons I will do get one. it just seems like the perfect thing for us.
Bob
Hey Bob, I guess I’m not a van-dweller anymore since I got a class c,but I am on a fixed income. I was camping in a campground and was told of a CG with the US Army Corps of Engineers that needed a volunteer camp host. I applied and got it. I get my camping spot with full hook-ups for free. The money I save from not paying for a campsite or traveling, I can save. I have recently found out that because of Government cut backs a lot of the federally owned parks are looking for Volunteer CG hosts. I think it is one of the few positive things,with the economy the way it is now.
Joey, vandwelling is an attitude, not a choice of a vehicle. I officially hereby dub thee a honorary vandweller!! Sounds like a great gig and perfect for you! Plus, I’m sure you love cleaning the toilets!!
Bob
another great post, Bob. I just bought a rear electric wheel kit. I did not expect the weight of the electric wheel. Geez it is heavy. Also the batteries I bought weigh 8lb ea. and I need 2 to get 24v.
Steve: Do you have an example of cooking a complete meal using a single frying pan??
Hi Rick, I’m sorry but I really know next to nothing about electric bikes as of now. I’m going to buy a complete bike, I’m not up to doing it myself as an add-on. That is the one big knock on the electric bikes, they are heavy. Keep us posted on your progress. In fact take pictures and write a post for me, I’d love that and you would be helping a lot of people!!
Hopefully Steve will answer, but I can go one better than 1 frying pan, how about a complete, fabulous meal with nothing but nothing but 4 pieces of aluminum foil! See how here:
http://cheaprvlivingblog.com/2012/10/best-darned-bbq-ever/
Bob
Steve n Zeke, great post on the biscuit cooking. I watch a lady on YouTube all the time that does home made biscuits in cast iron on a wood fire. “Mistshooter223” is her YouTube name. It’s great to watch her and brings all the old ways of living to life. Goes along with boondocking. Go for the e-book kindle, I”ll look for it and buy it to support your efforts.
Bob, as usual, the posts are a welcome read as I eagerly open up my email every day looking to see what I can learn from you next. Please don’t get discouraged by one negative comment. It’s your site, if they don ‘t like what they read they can go else where’s. See if Steve will let you click some pics of his master pieces and post them for us.
Ps, pics of Homer n Zeke are always welcome. Any info on animal care while van dwelling is helpful also. I still haven’ found the perfect van for me yet but I have purchased a lot of items for the convert already. Thanks, Brian in Upstate New York
Sorry, that is mistyshooter223 on YouTube .
Thanks for the encouraging words Brian. And thanks for the tip on the youtube videos, nothing beat cast iron cooking. I very much appreciate Al’s reminder that I need to serve the whole community. Sometimes I lose track of that and it is very good to be reminded. I definitely want Al to stay here, I need his input!
I’ll work on pics of Steve and Zeke. Actually Zeke is in a shot for the post on finding a camping spot I believe unless I didn’t use that photo. I don’t remember for sure. Steve and I were both lucky, we found two of the best dogs in the whole world. A post on animal care is a great idea!
Bob
Oh my goodness yes, a post or six on animal care! As my departure date gets closer I am more concerned about my dog than I am myself. I know I’m gonna be ok but what if something happens to me, what will happen to her? What if I am between spots and she doesn’t have room to run around? Will she bark at every leaf that blows by? Will she get along with other dogs we may run into? gah!! (Can you tell she is by bestest buddy ever?)
Ellen, I post on pet care never even occured to me, but now I see that it is a great idea!! So maybe next week. With the heat coming on, the sooner the better. I did one thing really right with Homer, I took him for lots and lots and lots of walks. A tired dog is a good dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I understand so well how you feel about your buddy. I am almost embarrassed by how much I love him. Thanks for the great idea for a post!
Bob
I appreciate this post. I see most of the ideas as flexible and useful, but I’ll write about what I know: bicycles.
I always think of a bicycle as an urban solution because distances tend to be shorter in cities. The addition of electric power would really open it up to be useful in many situations. A bicycle, electrical or not, has a major advantage over an internal-combustion vehicle. Bicycles can be stored indoors. I recently got a lesson in this when I decided to get a moped instead of an electric conversion kit for my bike. Because of the gasoline issue, I had to store the moped outdoors. Within two weeks it was stolen.
Incidentally, most decent bikes nowadays have quick release wheels. That helps a lot with storage. Also, Camping World sells folding bikes. I have a Dahon folder (not from Camping World); it stores in front of a front seat if needed.
One last thing about bikes; do not buy one from WalMart, K-Mart, etc. Those are not made for the real world. If you don’t have money for a new good bike, get a used good one (Raleigh, Giant, Diamondback, etc.) from craigslist or a garage sale or somewhere.
I love riding my bike. Great work-out and runs on human fuel. I run a lot of errands with it. Carries 20 lbs in the basket, no problem. Stores easily and safely.
I can go 5 miles in under 30 minutes and parking is a breeze. What’s not to like?!? Any hills are just added work-out material. People talk about motorcycles all the time when the distances are not all that far.
Forgot to mention that decent used bikes can be bought from Craigslist all day long. Many good deals to be had.
CAE, you forced it out of me, I AM LAZY! Where I am now the round trip to the Safeway is 30 miles and I am not riding a bike that far off my pedaling. In Wikenburg it was more like 10 miles round trip so on an electric bike makes it’s likely I’d ride it into town. In Quartzsite it is more like 8 miles round trip so it is a certainty I would ride an electric bike any time I wanted.
I know myself well enough to know that I am just not willing to ride those distances by pedaling. Especially since the idea is to buy groceries and get water while I am there. Carrying 2-3 gallons of water adds up weight fast! The gas powered bikes are very popular in Quartzsite, and I watch those guys buzz around town and say to myself that i would be very willing to do that. But an electric is so much better because with my solar it is free!!
Bob
Bob, since you go walking with Homer for an hour twice daily, you’ve disqualified yourself from being considered lazy. Sorry. You’re out.
In places like Quartzsite, an electric bike is superior to a gas one for just the reasons you have mentioned elsewhere. Also superior to a plain bicycle for errands when half of the 10-mile round trip is a heart-busting long slow climb, as your RTR site there was. Never even noticed it in the truck!
As you found, the liability of a motorcycle is a mishap at speed. I’ve found (the hard way) that a bicycle’s liability while near the pavement is not being in the flow of traffic. I’ve been clipped twice, and have heard several otherwise nice people pass by a bike or horse rider and indignantly comment that anything slower than a car should have no legal rights to the roadway, and they consider that they don’t. Yow. No sense of history.
A powered bike is still well out of the traffic flow, so once you get one, mentally separate the kinds of roads you will safely work with, versus the kinds that will pose an unacceptable risk. Most drivers will give you a wide berth because it’s confusing to see an upright bicycle going 20MPH. A few drivers will consider you a non-entity that’s in the way and needs to be taught a lesson. Rural connecting highways with a 1-foot dirt shoulder are hard on the nerves, at best. None of this is news to you, but I gotta say it anyway. I like to hear myself write, apparently.
Doug, I like to hear you write too!! I’m glad for your post because I am not a bike rider, those are the kinds of things I have to learn fast. I will never ride in big cities, and I feel okay at 20 mph in small towns like Quartzsite, Parker and Wickenburg. Like you say it is the full speed county roads getting to those towns that are terrifying! But long distance riders do it all the time so I figure I must be able to do it too. But, it remains to be seen.
I’m afraid it is no longer an hour twice a day. Homer just isn’t up to it anymore. It is more like 40 minutes in the morning and 30 at night. And even that sometimes seems too hard for him. I don’t know what I will do when he can’t even do that much. I will probably start taking a mid-day walk and leave him home. That will break my heart! Brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it.
See, you made me cry!!
Bob
Calvin, I have always loved the idea of a bike but the distances I need to cover just make them impractical for me–plus, I really am pretty lazy! My first choice would be an electric 3-wheeler. They are very common and would be extremely useful on shopping runs. But I can’t figure out how to carry one. Here is one that would be $1400
http://mrbelectrified.com/models-2/ After seeing Terries folding electric I really liked it to (here’s a different brand of folding elecric http://mrbelectrified.com/models-2/ also $1400). But I think I will stick with a bigger bike and put it on a bike rack to transport it. In camp it will be covered and locked to the tongue of the trailer.
I think you are right, bikes are one of those things you are better off spending more and getting better quality. In fact $1400 for a quality bike isn’t out of the question and then being electric just makes it all the better!
Bob
Hey Steve (or Bob) I read the article on Bob’s refrigerator set-up but I’m wondering what YOUR set-up is like (?)
Thanks
KinA
I am just starting off stealth camping here in Portland, the park and ride lot tip will help out during the day, thanks!
Glad to help Izaak! Al made me feel bad for my neglect of stealth vandwellers so expect to see more in the future aimed at you.
Bob
I really appreciate your sharing the details of what you’ve learned from your amazing experiences, Bob. I’ve been dreaming of an electric bicycle and I look forward to hearing about your evaluation and experience with one soon! (Too shady for solar where I am right now but I’m grateful to know I can come here for specific info when I need it.)
Karen, with my solar it just seems perfect for me and for anyone with solar. The cruise depleted my savings down to my minimum acceptable level, so I will have to wait a month or two to let it build back up. Then I will get one. I’m really looking forward to reporting on it!
Bob
What an idea Steve&Zeke. I NEED that ebook. I’ve got to lose 100lbs right now.
Bill, boondocking is so very healthy, it is hard not to loose weight and get healthier. The big thing is you are away from temptation. There is no TV, no advertising, no fast food places within 15 miles, no bakeries, Baskin-Robbins- no NOTHING! Just God’s incredible handiwork to walk in and connect with. I only go into town every week or two, and I , splurge once I get there on fast food. So when I get to the grocery store I am full and satiated. My weight has shot up so my new hard and fast rule is no junk food can come home into camp with me. My one exception is one nightly desert to last till my next trip into town.
That may not work for you, but I am sure you could find something that did.
Bob
1) Two years ago I bought a Motorized Bicycle (not a moped) and experimented with it. the chain came off the spocket often. The tire would pop often. it was a disaster ready to happen at less than $500 new. Also bought an eletric boke for $250 that had lead acid batteries, which would discharge quickly or fail every two years. technology in eitehr case was not good enough.
2) A year ago bought a moped with a one year warrentee for $1000 for my son. who uses it for comuting daily. works in cold of below frezing or in heat of 100 degrees. always works. Batteries might have an issue in cold.
3) yes have seen the technology improve over the last two years for electric bicycles. But really really look at the specifications. You might spend $2000 for an electric bicycle, that gets you 20 miles distance if lucky, on flat terriegn. But the batteries might die on you half way. some kind of ultralight moped might be a better solution.
Lots of good info in this post. Am I crazy to want to do this at age 73 – a single woman at that? I only have SS to live on and a tiny IRA. I used to have a Class C and toad, but have downsized to a pickup and 19 foot travel trailer.
Love the cooking ideas – hope you can do more of that. Also any tips on pet care would be good too. Volunteer positions at State Parks are wonderful if you can get them..
PsP, no!! You are not crazy!! Just last week we had two ladies in camp who were both 69 and in great health. Each had been living this way for the last 3 years and planned to continue indefinitely. I think a 19 foot trailer is the ideal way to boondock! You can do it! The key thing is your health, are you still healthy enough to get around and do all you need to do. Can you hitch and unhitch the trailer easily enough? If so, then come join us!
If it helps you can join us in camp. That way if you need the help of a big strong man Steve can help you, otherwise I will LOL. Seriously though, being in camp with others makes the transition easier and will probably make you feel safer. You are welcome to stay as long as you like!! Go for it!
Bob
Thanks so much for the encouragement! I am blessed with good health – it’s pure gift and I’m so grateful for it. Don’t have so much muscle though. I’ve never boondocked but am learning so much from your blog and others that I’d like to try it next winter after my volunteer position ends Florida State Park.
Keep up your good work!
PsP, you are so very welcome! As long as you can hitch and unhitch, you are golden!! When I was last there I know Ocala National Fores had dispersed camping so you could try it out there. Let me know how I can help.
Bob
Lots of camp hosting and other volunteer opertunities at http://volunteer.gov/
Paid camp hosting positions like Bob had and I have tend to involve more work and things that volunteers don’t like doing.
Hi Bob, Great post. I enjoy reading your blog. I love that you’ve posted a map of where you are staying. I’m wondering if you have any kind of archive with all these maps in it. I want to print them out so I can have a catalog of spots to boondock. It’s pretty impressive that you’ve only paid $10 in the last 5 years to park. I want to be able to say the same!
I, too, am anxiously awaiting the debut of “Boondockers Gourmet.”
Grace (in Tucson)
I bought a electric bike a few years ago, it was a cheap Chinese bike for $600 including shipping from somewhere in CA I think. Anyway, it was a 48V Lead acid battery bank in the front neck area and rear hub drive, I think I have a pic or two somewhere on this hard drive maybe. It would take me about 20-25 miles on a charge cruising at around 15-20 mph and I didn’t even have to pedal unless I was climb a steep hill and wanted to get it a boost. I mounted saddle bags and a front basket and could get to and from the grocery store with 50-60 lbs of food. I think it was designed for Chinese urban life, charged up on a 110 outlet in about 2-4 hrs depending on how far I rode it. Sadly I had to sell it when I moved on to my boat, could keep it out of the elements and worried it would get ruined in the rain. Too heavy to lift on and off the boat easily, it weighed I’m guessing 40 lbs or more.
Scott, it sounded like it was a very good experience for you, it just stopped working with your circumstances. I am pretty sure all the bikes I am looking at are made here in the USA. In fact the one I am planning on buying is assembled right here in Phoenix. He buys a Schwinn frame and assembles all the other components and paints it with his name. I will get a bike with the latest Lithium battery technology. There are many very good folding electric bikes now which would probably have been perfect for you. Terrys was extremely nice!
Thanks for the feedback, I’m glad to hear it worked so well for you.
Bob
thanks for mentioning mystery shopping in your post Bob!
Thanks for mentioning mystery shopping Bob!
From all I have read it seems that the only way to boon dock is to have a van. I don’t see any mention of car boon docking. Is there posting on this some where that I have missed?
Kathy, a van is by far the best way to boondock. BUT, it is NOT the only way. I have written quite a bit on car and tent camping:
http://cheaprvlivingblog.com/2013/01/tent-dwelling/
http://cheapgreenrvliving.com/priusliving.html
http://cheapgreenrvliving.com/Tent_Living.html
http://cheapgreenrvliving.com/Tipi-desert-Living.html
Or in a cargo trailer which could be pulled by a SUV
http://cheapgreenrvliving.com/Converted_Cargo_Trailer.html
Or in a Chevy Blazer SUV
http://cheapgreenrvliving.com/Blazer_Off-Road.html
There are other ways to boondock. But, after seeing lots of alternatives, I think a van is still best. Here is the bottom line, the tents all fail in the desert wind or it makes your life totally miserable. No one in any of those stores still full-times in a car, tent or SUV by bonndocking. They all gave up and moved to something else. The only exception is Susanne who still travels for long trips in her Prius, but she doesn’t full-time.
I will gladly tell you how to do it if you want me to. But I will tell you first I think it will be a mistake. I did meet 3 guys at the last RTR who I think might succeed at fulltiming long term in cars, but they haven’t done it long enough for me to be convinced yet. I do know one other guy who has done it a lot, for a long time!!!!! But he is the only one and he didn’t boondock, he lived in the city.
Living in a car in the city is much easier because the car is just your bedroom, you can spend all your time indoors at other places. In the boondocks, it’s either in your car, outside, or in a tent. What are you going to do when you get a week of 50 mph wind or rain or snow or all three mixed up?
In the city you just run into a store and go the bathroom, get food and water or entertainment. You don’t have that out here. You either carry everything you need with you for a week or two or you make frequent trips into town. If you go into town all the time, do you break your camp everytime or do you leave it at the mercy of whoever comes along?
I wish it were otherwise, but in the real world cars do not lend themselves to boondocking! My suggestion is a minivan. Some of them will get you 25-30 mpg and yet if bad weather hits you are okay taking the tent down and spending a bunch of time in it. You can carry 2 weeks of food, water and cold weather gear.
Bob
Steve, Like to know more about baking from scratch on a stove top, thanks for the recipe.
Bob, like to see a Potluck at the next RTR.
Also looking into an electric bike after riding one last winter. I like the IZip, not the the fact you carry the battery on one side, but if you got two batteries, one for each side you would have great balance. The Pedego is a center carrying battery but is a heavy bike. Lithum batteries is the only way to go for me. Motor size is an issue for me since I live in the mountains, so a 250 watt motor may not do the job, however if you live in flat lands it may suit your needs. So much to consider. an adult e-trike could carry the extra battery but then how do you store it?
Lynnzie, I’ll answer for Steve and say I don’t think he does bake from scratch. But we have a friend who does. If memory serves she assembles her own “Bisquick” type mix from scratch and then just uses it for the final baking. I do remember her giving Steve some of her mix and him baking with it. I have several friends who bake on the stovetop and it is really very easy. I know there are many YouTube videos on it. Were you at the Seminar on cooking? I know Laurie always gives a quick talk on how she does it.
The problem with a potluck is so many people are there with no cooking facilities and no cooking abilities. I’m afraid we would end up with just a few dishes and lots of cookies and potato chips!! The chili and soup dinners work well because everybody can contribute!!
There are federal laws that limit the size of the motor on an electric bike. If electric bikes become too powerful and fast, they become motor vehicles and have to be regulated as such. If memory serves the limit is 750 watts. The one I am looking at will have a 750 watt motor, but you can select it to operate as a 250 or 500 watt motor and get the extended range or a 750 for hills. The battery on it is mounted on a luggage rack over the rear wheel. you can get a second rack on top of it for a second battery of for luggage. I will buy two batteries for the extended range.
It’s likely I will buy from here. They look good and I really like that they are assembled in Phoenix. Go to this page and see all their models.
http://mrbelectrified.com/models-2/
I love the e-trikes!! But like you I don’t know how to carry one. I might be looking for one in June or July. When do you think you will get one? Lets share research!
Bob
Hi Bob,
I love your blog (been following for a while, but never commented). I have a request: could you please send out the full feed/article in RSS?
I realize why most bloggers only send out “the teaser”, is because their site has ads that pay for hosting, and the assumption is that when the full RSS feed is delivered readers don’t visit the site as much. But seeing how many comments you have already on just this one article…that doesn’t seem like your site is hurting for visitors. 🙂
Like a lot of mobile people I do most – if not all – of my RSS feed reading from my mobile phone. The WordPress theme you have is very un-mobile-friendly, and most of the time I give up trying to read your articles.
Thing is, I’d really *like* to read your articles! 🙂
I understand if you don’t want to make changes just for me, it’s your blog. But I thought I’d make the request, just in case it’s something you might consider. Either way, I do love your blog (and before there was the blog, your website!). Take care.
Mara, you are really embarrassing me!!!! Not because of your comment but because of the admission I have to make to you. I don’t really know what an RSS feed is! I have a general idea but I have never used one. I had a good friend set up the parts I don’t understand and that is one of them. If I knew how, I would make the change, but i don’t have a clue how to even start. Are you sure it is even possible?
I don’t get the blog by email subscription so I don’t know: does the email have the whole text or just the first paragraph? Some blogs that I subscribe to have the whole text and some just a paragraph. If I knew how I would certainly change that, but I don’t know how. I hate it when a blog makes me go there to read the whole text.
The wonderful thing about Worpress is you don’t have to understand this stuff to make it happen. The terrible thing about Worpress is that if you want to tinker with it and make it just what you want it to be, you then don’t know how.
If you or anyone knows how to do this stuff email me and I will see if I can make it happen. I can’t have you missing even one of my prescious words!!
Bob
P.S. Could you tell me how you put emoticons in your comment?
Hi Bob!
I’m so sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I never got the comment reply notification, but maybe that’s because I didn’t subscribe through WordPress directly.
I’d be more than happy to help you/walk you though it, and yes..it’s very possible to make these changes. 🙂 I believe it’s possible on a post-by-post basis, also, to change the settings. That’s what confused me, when I saw a guest post on this fine blog not too long ago, and it had the full post come across in RSS.
Oh, and you asked what “RSS” is (as did Karen in a more recent post). Here’s the super short explanation. RSS stands for “Really Simple Syndication”, though to be totally honest…it’s always not so “Really Simple” if you’ve never done it before.
Basically, let’s say there are 10 different blogs you love to keep up on. You plug the “feed” (the URL that has the RSS feed) into an RSS Reader, and it does all the work. At set intervals it will go out and check to see if a new blog post has been posted. If there’s a new post, the RSS reader grabs it and displays it inside the Reader. It sort of works like whatever you use to read email works with your email.
And though users can also subscribe to blogs by email (receiving new posts to email), I use an RSS Reader on my phone. To answer your question on how your posts come across, yes…your blog posts are set for the “teaser”, or just the first paragraph or 2, and then to read the rest I need to click on the link, which opens in the mobile browser. Often it’s difficult to read because the WordPress theme you use doesn’t seem to be optimized for a mobile device, and reading can be a challenge.
One of the advantages to reading from the RSS Reader app is that all posts are already optimized for a mobile device, but also, if I get interrupted while I’m reading a post, I can easily mark it as unread, so I can come back later and finish reading.
I’d be happy to help you with this! I’ve read your blog for I think about the past year…but before you started this blog, I read everything you wrote on your website. It took me quite a while, you have a wealth of great information there. It would be my pleasure to give something back. 😀 <– : and a D with no space in between.
It would probably be easier doing this through email, sound good?
Thanks sp much Mara, yes, lets do it by email!
Thanks for the link… great looking bikes and I really like the fact that they don’t put everything on the back wheels and put the motor in front and the batteries centered on back for greater weight distribution.
They really want you to ride on a smooth surfaced road or trail in reading the site and this is what it says on the warranty “Equipment Warranty. Your Mr. B products are not designed for off road use.”
So I guess they they wont warranty the bike down the rocky and bumpy roads we travel on when boon docking. And they may work great on bumpy roads, and we are just have to take a chance? I know there are other e bikes that have a cover over the motor and I wonder about how dust may affect it? So much out there and so much research to do. yes,we need to share lots of comparisons.
Hey cheaprvlivingblog readers…what is your favorite electric bike for riding rough roads and is dust a concern on the motor? does it need to be an enclosed motor?
Late comment, but:
Some may balk at these, but Golden Eagle Engines for bikes have a great reputation, unlike some of the other “motorized” bikes, especially the ones that just spin your tire, that is just an accident waiting to happen. Its basically turns any bike into a 200 plus mile per gallon vehicle.
http://www.bikeengines.com/
This guy has had one for six years, and…has built himself a hybrid bike with an electric assist front motor. That has to be the best of both worlds, and makes it more like a…600 mile per gallon hybrid. Charge your batteries at the library and…..you get the picture.
http://www.bikeengines.com/tomtest2.htm
Bob, I wanted to let you and your readers knowI found an ebook on Amazon that is free right now. It is about electric bikes and it’s history and future. I am about 1/3 of the way through. It is pretty good. I am now reading about the two main types of electric bikes available today. hub motors and crank style motors. very useful book since you are looking at buying one. here a link. I have no interest financially in the book and do not know the author.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Electric-Bike-Book-ebook/dp/B00B7PAWLE/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1369341569&sr=8-12&keywords=electric+bike
Rick, that book caught my eye as well and I picked it up. I haven’t read it yet, but I glanced through it. My first thought is that it is a good general introduction but not much specifics that are all that helpful to me. Still, it’ a great book for free!!
Are you planning on getting a e-bike? I just ordered one, it should be here first of next week. I bought one of the cheapest ones on the market (Currie TrailZ) but all the reviews say it is an amazingly good bike for the money. I figured it would let me find out if it was practical without loosing too much. If I like it and want to upgrade I can sell it and not loose too much.
Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it.
Bob